refer for help to a psychologist or other specialists. we have created a resource through which you can report any crime against a child. in any city, at any time, just go to the site and report, and we will launch all possible mechanisms to punish the criminal. stopprymua. congratulations, friends, the saturday political club on the espresso tv channel, andriy smoliy and vitaly portnikov, and at this time we traditionally discuss all the most important events of ukraine and the world, and we already have the first guest on the line: roman kostenko, people's deputy of ukraine, secretary of the committee of the verkhovna rada of ukraine on security, defense and intelligence, colonel of the security service of ukraine, congratulations mr. roman. good evening, and the first

question, it is, good evening, about the military actions, what we are currently observing, and what the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of ukraine, general syrskyi, is saying now, that an escalation is expected, and we have heard about the capture the position of the russian troops in donetsk, even in the kharkiv regions, where several villages are occupied, this may change the situation, i would say, positional for the ukrainian army, how does it look, in principle? well, in general, we have to strategically understand that the enemy has to concentrate a larger number of troops, this is about short-term such tasks, in general, their tasks do not change, it is the capture of the donetsk luhansk region, which they will continue to do in the 24- m year, and they want to take the territories as much as possible before the maximum amount of help has come to us and until, as they consider it...

it is easier to do, therefore, unfortunately, the initiative due to the fact that most of the personnel, the number of personnel, the ability to supply more projectiles is now temporarily on the side of the enemy, i hope that our partners will quickly provide us with help, and we will be able to quickly e -e to transfer to the front in order to stabilize the situation and make parity and, let's say, normalize the situation on the battlefield, at night the enemy made another massive attack on our territory, it took place in two stages, in fact, again the main targets were energy facilities. sir roman, please tell us what to expect next, what do you think will be the blows, where will they be directed? well, we understand that in general we can only analyze what the enemy is doing and, in principle, see again the situation as a whole and what he is saying. that the enemy

both attacked and will continue to attack, we do not know when he will, maybe there will be some situation when he will stop doing it, but as of now we see that their task is to knock out our generation in order to ukraine, let's say, to force ukraine there to some concessions, to some changes there, in order to implement, well , to suppress the moral and psychological state in order to force people inside the country to somehow influence the government. so that it is possible to push him to some compromises, and this is the main task of the enemy, that he will continue to strike, we understand this, and our main task is to ask our partners to close the sky and give us the opportunity to give us more air defense, we we already see with this help there is a certain amount of it, but of course, it was exemplary how it happened in israel, when iran struck, in principle almost... missiles were shot down by both

israel and the allies, of course, it is easy to do when it is done for the first time, and you have not exhausted your resources yet , but of course, i would like to see such a reaction to the shelling of our infrastructure facilities, because once again, the enemy will destroy our generation and all the consequences, the defense-industrial complex, the economy, er, generation, to drive everything into, shall we say, times. let's say so, lower us into darkness and reduce the economy as much as possible. mr. roman, let's talk about this story with the atakams, because on the eve of the adoption by the american congress of the law on aid to ukraine, many people said that there is a kind of trap for the administration of president biden, or is there a special clause with the transfer to ukraine long-range atacoms missiles, and that it will be very difficult for president biden to comply with this ...

demand from lawmakers, and that it will put the white house in an awkward position, maybe even will force him to prove that ukraine does not need these missiles, or that it threatens the national security of the united states, but... i think we found out after the adoption of the bill that the missiles were already transferred even before the law was passed, that's why the americans delayed so long , and then, without even waiting for the law, they took it and handed it over. i want to say that we are talking now, well there, let's say, in general about atakams missiles, but we know that they are of different types, and in particular what our partners are talking about are attack missiles from the first eh... series of production, this is with a range of 165 km, and we remember that there was already a discussion, including in the information field, about striking them, we remember that strikes were carried out on berdyansk on the airfield, and and some airfields were also

struck, namely cluster strikes, where a certain number of russian helicopters were destroyed, and these were attack missiles, but about this range, they are 160.5 km, which they were handed over to us, is still up for discussion , when we had a setback at the front, let's say so, but there was not yet this, such politicization of aid, and even then they were handed over and used when they were still in good hands, and our partners had such a strong concern that we should not use them on russian territory, they are very afraid of that, so it was a question of 165 km, of course for it will open up... the potential if we get their latest missiles, which can fly 300 km, and there the radius of deviation from, well, from the hit coordinates there is plus or minus 5 m, these are quite accurate missiles,

so of course they gave us more opportunities, because even these 165 can be launched km kilometers of missiles, if you need to hit something seriously, you need to be very close... khimarsya should be pulled up to the front line , and this increases their vulnerability, and if we take about 300, it will also hit the crimean bridge, although it will no longer play a role such a role, but in principle it is as a backup source for the supply of logistics, then it is still not there, it should not be, that is why i believe that this is the first priority target, it should be destroyed, as well as objects on the territory crimea well, at the expense of other objects, we even today we showed that there ukraine continues to strike with its own means, with unmanned aerial vehicles on objects and on airfields, how the strikes were carried out, including the use of the

security service of ukraine, alpha, the center for special operations, and the main intelligence directorate, quite effective, as they are called, these rockets for the poor still play a role by their mass. the task of striking the enemy's infrastructure, if there are no such tamahawk missiles, then of course this is a way out, but when we talk about, you know, we what we do not have missiles, we call long-range attack missiles, there are short-range, medium-range and long-range missiles, they are in the nomenclature of strategic missiles, and these missiles are operational-tactical, they do not even fall into that nomenclature, but since we no... they don't give any more, we are happy for them too, and of course, i think, we will use them to the maximum and deliver such blows to the enemy's rear that they will not be able to, let's say, weaken their pressure on the front edge. the american media, in particular cnn , point out that part or the majority

weapons from the package that was voted in the senate and the house of representatives of the united states of america are already located either on the territory of poland or on... the territory of the federal republic of germany. mr. roman, how quickly can these weapons be supplied to us now and how much can they change the balance of forces at the front? well, everything will depend on our allies, but i will say that, we understand that it often happens, i will not say how precisely it happens, but it often happens that ours, even our allies, some, already understanding some of their weapons about ... well, to, for example, help us when a decision is made and when it is understood that it will be made, and if it is not, then it will not change anything, to place some reserves in the european countries of our allies, so that then simply quickly through the points defined there in the borders, these weapons are the most necessary to get, it is there, and what is most needed

there are rockets for the khymasztsi, we really need them in large quantities now, because supplies have been reduced, and this has had a rather strong effect on... our defense capability, it is - here is the 155th caliber, and others are the 105th caliber, let's say yes, artillery shells, rockets, this is what we need in the first place now, and additional barrels and everything else, so it is often either already on the territory of ukraine or close to ukraine, and i think that we will get the most necessary quickly, the only question is how it will be distributed along the front, we understand that the main task is not only to get it, to establish it on the territory of ukraine, but also to preserve it, because russia is now on our side. data included all its resources and the fsb, and the foreign intelligence service, the main one intelligence management, they are interested

in how they activated them in our partner countries, in order to see through which checkpoints these weapons enter, where they are concentrated, where they are distributed, in order to then strike them, for them this is very important, because we can see their reaction, they don't even know what to say, they try to reduce it, there is sand, he says, it won't change anything, you know, people sitting in the kremlin... understanding that there are hundreds of thousands of ammunition of various calibers going there, and it will be, well, tens of thousands of killed and hundreds of thousands of maimed russians, they say, well, it won't change anything, because for them human life is nothing, well, if it doesn't change anything for them, then we understand that it will really strengthen us, if we talk about the perspective , but in principle, if you see the entire theater of military operations, you really think that russia will now or in the next weeks... but advance precisely in order to consolidate some positions before we receive a large amount of help,

as far as it is realistically possible with point of view opportunities? well, mr. vitaly, what do we mean, well, by offensive, i always divide active actions, offensive and offensive operation, if we are talking about an offensive operation, then literally yesterday representatives of intelligence came to us, that is, an offensive strategic operation, for example, there as i... i would hold for the enemy, there is a part from the kharkiv region, a part from zvugedaru, there to make big pincers, let’s say so, to capture some regions or at least regions, russia now, fortunately, there are no such forces, so they want now to carry out the mobilization of more than 400 people there to replenish the personnel, to create new units, they are in the stage of this, but active actions and tactical-level offensive operations. which in the case of our, shall we say, subsidence can lead to some kind of operational success, the occupation

of a few cities or a few villages there, it can be, but whether they will be successful or not, it depends on us, and we are enough, i think, calm down , if help comes quickly now, we will raise the mobilization resource, we we will be able to resist this and stay at least on these borders. mr. roman, there will be another question that concerns the f-16, yes, we expect them according to one information at the end of may, according to information from other countries during 2024, when should we expect it, because after all, it is, let’s say, one of the most effective current countermeasures, including shelling by the occupiers, well, the latest information is that... we saw it at the beginning of the summer, we have been told about it many times

that it will happen, but it is always postponed, if it's a matter of training, it's very important because well the problem is sometimes the latest weapons, i 've come across this many times and it's so historical that you can provide the best weapons, but if you don't train well, if they're only going to use it 20% at most, i seen this effect, when you give a person the best, well, for example, there is a thermal imager, he only knows on and ... off, then this, let's say, does not give us an advantage, so if it is a matter of good training of pilots, of course we need them quite well teach them to get the most out of those f16s that will come to us, but we will squeeze them out as much as possible, provided that they have normal radars, with normal equipment, which we are promised, and which can only give us a technical advantage over the enemy, because if they are f16s of older models. in principle, nothing may change, except for the possibility of shooting down shaheds there and - cruise missiles are already on the territory of ukraine,

and the main task and wherever we would like to see them is, of course, in confrontation in the air, because just before avdiivka russia did not have an advantage, then you , they have an advantage in the number of planes had, but our air defense made it parity due to the fact that due to the fact that russia could not use it, and so... by the statement of the cabs with the decrease in the number of air defense in our country , due to the superiority, i consider this to be an enthusiastic avdiivka, because well the weapon is quite powerful and it had a strong effect on our defenders, when it was no longer possible to hold and our troops had to be moved to other positions, and russia realized that this was their trump card for now, as in every war, when poison and anti -poison are , someone has an advantage in the very short term until someone finds something another thing, and now russia is trying to use this tactic also in the time gap, just falling asleep with kababs, knocking out our

defenders, so i think that these f-16s, i would like them to come. hopes that just before this start of active actions by russia, so that, this is precisely this antidote against the russian su-34 and su-35, which are the carriers of the kabs, so that they are not, not to give them the opportunity to fly up to the launch distance, here, i think, their main task will be, in addition to helping with the air defense system, so that we can better hold our borders, i i hope that before the start of active actions, this is may, which we count on... there will be some number of them and they will support us. thank you, thank you, mr. roman. roman kostenko, people's deputy of ukraine, secretary of the committee of the verkhovna rada of ukraine on security, defense and intelligence, colonel of the security service of ukraine. we 're going to break for just a few minutes now, but stay with us. there are discounts on visas,

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society, and feedback. you can express your opinion on the evil of the day with help. phone survey turn on and turn on the verdict with serhiy rudenko every day on weekdays from 20 to 22 for espresso. saturday political club, live broadcast, we are back, and we already have another guest. this is valery chaly, ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america in 2015-2019. mr. valery, good evening. i congratulate you. glory to ukraine. good. glory. so, let's talk about this publication in develt, where in the end they talked about the details of those russian proposals that formed the basis of the agreements in istanbul, which were never initialed in both countries. i think it is also important

because just yesterday oleksandr lukashenko, during a speech at the all-belarusian people's assembly, said that russia and ukraine should sit down. to the negotiating table, and these agreements should become a framework for starting consultations? well, it’s already such an impression that we remember the distant past, i’ll just remind you that how many there were, well, those from the civil society of ukraine, from the military in march-april of the 22nd year, how many and what kind of reaction was there to what we learned, that something is being prepared there? i'll tell you, well, i actually wrote a whole 10 questions that the government should do in order to, relatively speaking, then no... it was difficult after a few years, then in principle a decree was made then, a delegation was formed and directives were issued, well, of course,

after that, after that, i don’t know why the authorities were so negatively disposed to the discussion then, because, for example, i was simply instructed to delete it from all channels, by the way, i am grateful to espressa, that is espressa, the fifth, direct channel that is now deleted. that they were broadcasting, and obviously i saw not only this front page, even from those press conferences, remember in istanbul, where our members were, they are there, i will remind you, in four voices , each told his story, which surprised me right away, and the composition of this delegation surprised me very much, there are my colleagues, former diplomats, a former student, sasha malinovskyi or oleksandr malinovskyi, who is the truth now... very an experienced lawyer, oleksandr chaliy, which was the basis of the concept of these people, international lawyers, i see the preambles of this document, with a false note about

the declaration of state sovereignty, which forever determined our neutral status, this story has been going on for years, and why would was to lie, but to directly give the russians this weapon against us, i do not understand, that is why this is such a page where we should... draw conclusions, because it is a trap, behind such a wrapper, there was, well, in fact, the disarmament of ukraine, and ukraine made her defenseless in front of everyone, well , it's clear where it was leading to, was n't it clear, that's why, in principle, i think that this should have already become an example, well, mistakes that should not be repeated, understanding the basic interests of russia, i.e. .. our e-e is going to destroy ukraine, and will not give up on it, why count on the same one again history with a record, as they did, frankly

speaking, in their time, they also believed russia to write a treaty on friendship, partnership, cooperation, sovereignty is clearly written there, no interference in internal affairs, for this they compromised with russia , a base there in crimea was allowed to have 20 years. that is , it is all russia, you can’t trust russia, that is , any, i will even say more, probably russia is not capable of negotiating this regime now, well , that’s for sure, it’s easy to see that they cannot withstand either international agreements or international rules, so on the one hand, firstly, those who will now start speaking, including the members of this, this delegation from the ukrainian side, and some of them, well, remained in office. work in important positions in ukraine, and some, well , if experts who continue campaigning in europe, saying that there was a good chance, well

, it is absolutely cynical to say so, because there was no chance, putin had and still has completely different goals, moreover, even russia was interested in it then, and putin himself did not want it, the appetites were great, that is, all this would not have increased, because it is in its basic ... in its design it is absolutely catastrophically wrong, even if i tell you such a thing, let them tell me how a neutral state, as they wanted to do, a neutral state that gives up its ability to be in collective defense, why it has to reduce to 85 thousand armies, why should it reduce and decapitate itself and make itself absolutely defenseless, someone can explain why to the team. defense can be somewhat balanced there at the expense of others, in a neutral state, that's it you can only tell some people who don't understand the situation, that's why it

's thrown in now, i think it's thrown out and published in order to once again put pressure on ukraine in the sense that they will have to agree to various capitulation conditions, and that's all... if the ukrainians will play along with this, i will come out once again, as i did today, and say that this is play along, they play along with the aggressor, and all these words are said that our men and women are dying, this does not explain their position, because much more will die if allow such a course of events. mr. valery, you have already rightly said what is the purpose of such documents in the mass media, which raises the question of whether such initiatives are possible now or in the future from any of the parties and whether in

principle. relatively speaking, even some western countries or even russia itself would be ready to return and promote this agenda, such and such, such similar agreements, as we have seen right now in the western press. i will say my subjective point of view, that appeared recently also through zmi, for some reason it was called erdogan's plan, or the turkish plan, you remember, but in fact i know. i did my own little investigation, the russian plane, it was imported there in a strange way, well, it is real, it is printed on paper there, and this one is also coming back now, i think that for me this is evidence that russia is groping for some kind of understanding of the possibilities , she also wants to see somewhere

how ukrainian society reacts, how much... it splits and which strata, that is , in principle, then at that time this plan is rather was made, i mean the istanbul document or this one, although in fairness it must be said that it did not reach a normal document, it was only a preparation, although there are some signatures from the ukrainian side, but it is not an internationally legal document, so now and then, and now this attempt again... this game of subversion from within ukrainian society, no more, no less, so it seems to me that russia feels that we do not see that they have serious problems, they see them and they start even now and earlier are starting to, well, at least test the situation, that is, this is roughly their desire, if, well, i, you know, i don't know what

to say about this, because... i only know one thing, that everything that was possible with russia says from the point of view of the treaties, the side is already turned upside down, turned upside down with this regime, only force methods, only force means, they can understand, maybe this is an attempt to test in ukraine, so that our partners will press later, well, apparently from what is perceived by the part there ukrainian society, you can to say, but i emphasize once again, this is all... it will not end with these kind of agreements, there will be no such thing, that is, everything is the main agreement and everything that will happen after the completion of this stage of the russian-ukrainian, multi-year, maybe, well, i don’t want to, of course, but rather just a few decades of confrontation, that 's all, well, this large-scale, this part may end without any agreements, it may end with what will be recorded in the war.

both on land and in other parts, but even in this develt publication it is said that russia then began to make additional demands on ukraine, which could not be accepted by any means, such as declaring russian the second state language, something like that, the impression is that they are all the time trying to make the document destabilizing to such an extent, in order to guarantee themselves chaos , and they don't even hide it, they even, i would say, don't have enough patience to somehow do it, he said. uh, how to say it, be careful, or there, with the creation of some illusion, a real agreement, this is also interesting, there is this, well , it was written right there, why i was happy, why were the negotiators happy, well, i don't know if they were all, but oleksandr chaly said, my namesake, we have achieved that russia has accepted, i will carefully say, as he said,

denazification will not be discussed.