person in the world is randi weingarten. is not a close call. if you ask who is the most likely to take this republic down, it would be the teachers unions and the filth that they are teaching our kids and the fact they don't know math and reading or writing. takedown the republic, randi weingarten. i know you are effective. that is something. >> i do not understand why they are afraid of knowledge or why they are afraid of kids critically thinking, or sparking imagination. for the life of me. this is, you and i have had these conversations for a long time. i am a history teacher by training, and a lawyer by training. but when you look at, or listen to an apple, tim snyder, they will tell you, what authoritarians do. authoritarians do two things. they basically create apathy and chaos, where they try to

create fear and bullying and then they alone are the ones that can fix it. and so, if you don't have knowledge, fear becomes much more inviting. and what we are trying to do is create knowledge. we don't want our kids, we don't want to determine what our kids think, but we really want our kids to know how to think. and so, for mike pompeo to say that, it means that the code is, i don't want kids to have knowledge. and this is what, part of why they banned books and as they try to stop the teaching of honest history, that is what school teachers do in k-12. and what i love about my union is we are one of the largest nurse unions, nurses are giving out books. we are the largest higher ed, our faculties are giving up books. public employees are giving out books. this has become union work, to actually make sure that we give

knowledge and the joy of reading. >> i like you said, if you don't have knowledge, fear is more inviting. my friend, randi weingarten, president of the american federation of teachers. ahead, a blockbuster monday in court. what we expect to hear from the man who once said he would take a bullet for donald trump and what the former president squeezed in at his latest rally during a recess --. democratic bailout for mike johnson, what is the strategy? i will speak with one of the lawmakers who chose to save his job. another hour of velshi begins now. now. good morning, to sunday,

may 12th. happy mother's day. in 24 hours from now, prosecutors in donald trump's criminal trial are expected to call to the stand, their star witness, michael cohen. on monday, the ex-president's former longtime personal lawyer is going to begin his testimony which is expected to take several days to complete. despite questions about his credibility, michael cohen was once part of trump's innermost circle of confidants. for many years he was privy to low store meetings, related to sensitive aspects of the former president's business, and personal life. the prosecutors will likely use his testimony to connect the dots between the tawdry tabloid aspects of this case, and the actual allegations at the center of the prosecution. the falsification of dozens of business records to cover up the payoff to keep stormy daniels quiet. stormy daniels, the former adult film actress with whom trump is alleged to have an affair took to the stand to testify about her interactions over the years with the former president. much of that was to his very obvious dissatisfaction. last week trump's attorneys filed not one but two motions for a mistrial based on

daniel's testimony, both of which were denied by the judge, juan mershon. at one point judge mershon called for a sidebar, to notify the defense that the judge could hear the former president cursing and making comments during testimony, the actions the judge said could be contemptuous. donald trump continue to make frustrations known during his campaign rally yesterday, in wildwood, new jersey. it was at times a bizarre affair. even by trump standards. at one point he veered into a tangent, congratulating the late great hannibal lector. hannibal lector is not a person. hannibal lector is a fictional cannibal, from the silence of the lambs, a movie. and like many recent rallies, trump aired out grievances about his legal situation, the gop is twice impeached, four times indicted, presumptive presidential nominee. he continued attacks against the judges and prosecutors involved in his cases. he repeated accusations that judge mershon is quote, highly

conflicted and this case in manhattan is quote, a biden show trial. trump even got accrued. mocking the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, and the former new jersey governor chris christie, for their physical appearance. and then a couple of instances, he used expletives in reference to his criminal cases. this sort of language and the sort of behavior has grown increasingly common for trump as his legal bills and his political troubles have mounted and there could be more trouble on the way. yesterday, the "new york times" and propublica reported that trump might owe the irs more than $100 million. this, dispute relates to an accounting method that was used by trump's company, that effectively meant they took the tape days the tax write-offs twice on a chicago property. if donald trump does and up having to pay, this would also add to the hundreds of millions of dollars trump already owes in financial penalties as a result of other legal cases and

could become an item on the former president list of grievances that he will rant about at his rallies. the government coming after him again. as the "new york times" pointed out, trump's rhetoric has been unlike anything else that have come before in american politics. quote, no major american presidential candidate has talked like trump does at his rallies, not richard nixon, not george wallace and not even donald trump himself, end quote. though the former president was already known for brash and controversial comments during his past campaigns and past life, he has significantly escalated his rhetoric this time around. as his legal troubles have piled up. trump's promise to exact retribution and revenge upon a possible return to the white house, is certainly not normal clinical speech. and yet it has become a central tenet of his third presidential bid. joining me now, a big honor, jen psaki, host of msnbc's inside with jen psaki, former white house press secretary and author of the new book, say

more, lessons from work, the white house, and the world. thank you for joining us and congratulations on the book. i want to have a conversation about that. entirely separately. >> and congratulations on your book. for having the greatest crossover episode and i look forward to talking about that later, too. >> we love books. you heard my conversation with randi weingarten. we love to talk about this. we love the knowledge people get because it allows kids to grow up in a world of critical thinking, which is something we could use right now. democracy depends on informed electorate. and if the electorate are well enough informed that donald trump's nonsensical saturday night rallies fall on deaf ears, he could probably learn a thing or two about how to be an effective communicator but let's talk about what he's doing now. this escalation, the language he uses. the physical mocking of people. he's done that in the past with

chris christie. he talks about immigrants as vermin. he talks about a bloodbath in terms of trade. of trade. he has started to use? >> it is increasingly dangerous and he is making a bet it is effective. he has long attacked immigrants and he has long used language that is dangerous and prompts the possibility of violence. he thinks this will appeal to his base but perhaps beyond. and something i heard you say, it is important for us to talk about it. we are not projecting something he is thinking in his mind, he is saying this out loud. it is important for people to

hear how he thinks about people in this country and is projecting what he would do in a second term. >> the projecting is done in great detail and there is project 2025 which you have talked about in your show. and people say, why doesn't he read it. i am not because it is 177 pages and is a detailed document on what exactly they are going to do if donald trump is elected again. people should read it in that way there would be no surprise if donald trump is the next president of the united states. if there is no surprise because they put it out and it is there for you to read. >> it is on the heritage foundation website and anyone can read it. >> i do like the idea of you reading it, but yes, it is out the there for people to read.

trump did and 83 minute interview with time magazine just a week and a half ago where he outlined exactly what he is going to do. there is no secret. we talk about it and you talk about it and people need to make decisions about whether ord not that is what they want. >> president biden vowed to restore roe v wade as the law of the land. what we have seen in regular elections admit term elections or special elections or referenda that this has succeeded. there are people who have said, do not take my rights away even though they have been taken away and half the country. donald trump and others have threatened to take abortion rights away in the rest of the country. clearly it is working, but how realistic is it that if joe biden is reelected that something will actually be able to be done to protect

reproductive rights for women in this country? >> i think, number one people would not sign an abortion ban. it is making things less bad, of course. he would support, as he has said many times, codifying roe v wade. if it is something people care deeply about. i think it is interesting with the politics of it. it has actually increased since the overturning and people look at the affordable care act. and for barack obama when he was running for reelection and midterm, it became more popular and people rallied behind it and this is the case with abortion rights. codifying roe , even if the

president is willing to sign it , people need to focus on who they are voting for down ticket. >> what happened in congress became interesting this last week as a number of democrats agreed to get on board with stopping the eviction of mike johnson from the chair. i think democrats voted for order and for not having more chaos, but it was a tough pill for a lot of democrats to swallow given who mike johnson is a given how he reacted to the election in 2022. also given his views on abortion and putting in a lot to make it illegal for undocumented immigrants to vote. i thought it was illegal for undocumented immigrants to vote . >> very much illegal and it is a conspiracy theorist thing and i have a whole thing on that in my show coming up in a few minutes.

tune in for that. it is a tough pill to swallow. he is better than the alternative and that's where we are in congress right now. he could be better than the alternatives and he took steps to push through funding for ukraine and keeping the government open. there is a functionality aspect but they can also run against him and his policies. they don't want mike jeffers to be speaker of the house in a year. the most telling thing about it is they think he is better than the alternative, even given everything you just outlined. >> let's take a break and when we get back, we want to talk about your book. book. free . just buy any footlong in the app and get one free. just scan the qr code and enter promo code flbogo it only works from the other side of the screen, buddy. you still got a land line in your house. order now in the subway app.

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>> why does the president support abortion when his own catholic faith teach that abortion is wrong? >> he believes it is a woman's right and he believes it is up to woman to make those decisions with her doctor. i no you have never faced those choices nor have you ever been pregnant. >> how his weapon nicene the justice department to operationalize integrity. >> if you have a fear of making it easier and more accessible for people to people to vote, i would ask you what you are afraid of. >> reporter: wouldn't and ensure american people as we head into this, wouldn't it be better to let the american people no? >> i convey to you and then i have to move on, you should talk to his representatives. there is no reason to yell, i'm not yelling. i would say that unlike the previous administration that

twitter is not the way to discuss important topics . >> reporter: why not just doing here? >> to be here clear, the americans are not limiting. let me finish. let me give you the facts here. i know can be inconvenient but they are important in this moment. >> we could keep watching that and it was fun. that was my fantastic colleague, jen psaki, giving a class in communications as press secretary. and she has a new book, "say more: lessons from work, the white house, and the world". jen psaki is back to talk to me about those. i love to watch people who communicate differently than i do . i saw dozens of instances

when you were the press secretary in which i would've gotten hot under the collar and my smile would not of gotten bigger and i would not have been able to sort of lower the temperature on the conversations. not only did you do that, but you seemed to like it. it almost seems to be your superpower, i can calm this thing down. >> thank you. i have a range of emotions. i'm an irish lass with angry moments and emotional moments, certainly. when i talked to president biden about that job, what he asked me to do was take the temperature down in the briefing room because the prior administration had made it an aggressive room where they were accusing the reporters of lying and the president himself was accusing them. they were screaming and that was vitriolic. you can have debates and that is a healthy thing and we had those in the briefing room. it is not a forum useful for

the public if it is a screaming match of accusations and name- calling every day. >> i have been out all week talking to audiences in person and there is no greater adventure. >> it is so fun. >> one question that comes up that is probably more specific to your book, how do you engage with people with whom you no you disagree and have views that are not yours. you are fundamentally up pluralist and it's not about tolerating but engaging. how do we all do that? how do regular people engage with people who you think might be unreasonable? >> first of all, decide if it is reasonable. building a bridge is reasonable but if someone is yelling at me in an airport, it's not a worthwhile debate and i will just say have a good day. but fighting a place of commonality and i learned this

from barack obama when i worked for him. listening is often in attacks that is not used as often as it should. do we like baseball or do we both have kids? i'm not saying it will win a debate, but looking for some way to crack the door open is often the first step in trying to engage. >> you talked about the importance of preparation in your book. when your script and delivery are fluid, you will not give the impression of acting the part. preparation allows you to deliver a great interview, talk or performance because it gives you the background and experience to sustain the confidence,". we have all heard fake it until you make it but you stand by

the phrase, knowledge is power. you want the details and i no you always had a briefing book in front of you and you wanted to no what was in front of you. >> that's so true. people love to hear you talking about issues in the middle east because you have decades of knowledge and understanding. communicating is not just about reading a teleprompter or reading a list of questions. it is empowering yourself by being knowledgeable about the issue. i don't necessarily mean cramming for hours before a briefing or a show. i mean, spending time deeply knowing the substance of what you are talking about. it sounds obvious, but it isn't talked about about how important it is for people who are communicators. >> it is mother's day today and i want to talk about key and

notable women who have been in this role as white house press secretary. there are many of us who think, could it just be different if there were more women running things? how is it for a woman in this specifically adversarial role which you have worked hard to make less adversarial, how did it influence the way you communicate? >> i didn't think of it through that. i had to deal with things like hair and makeup and i did my own in a not fancy way with the caboodle in my office before the briefing. if i could put my hair in a ponytail and not wear makeup, it would've been easier. most men don't have to deal with that. and i had to wear heels to reach over the podium because i'm 53. there is unspoken gender bias, for sure. that is something unconsciously i dealt with. any woman in elected office and in a higher profile role than me has dealt with that. i also found that a lot of

people who have been my greatest mentors, are men. i've also had women who have climbed the ladder themselves and pulled the ladder up and that is also not talked about. it is nuanced and i talk about some of it in my book. for me, i remember the physicality. i knew everything to say about iran but i have to brush my hair and put on my makeup but most men don't have to do that that have had the job before. >> you dig something that change the trajectory of how conversations are had in this country and it is something we all need to do every day. thank you for writing it. and jen psaki is the author of the important book , "say more: lessons from work, the white house, and the world" . still ahead, speaker mike

johnson's job is safe and why democrats are not promising to save him again is congress and marjorie taylor greene takes another shot at him. thout d. good to go unscripted. good to go on a whim. with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients, or if you're taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems, mental health concerns and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. with cabenuva, you're good to go.

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republican house speaker mike johnson has 163 thank you letters to right. that is how many democrats voted to save his job after marjorie taylor greene tried to oust him last week. democrats had the ability to watch the chaos play out in again to let the gop force out their own speaker again as they forced out kevin mccarthy. this despite johnson being the most far right house speakers of modern time. and joining us is madeline dean. congressman, great to see you on the show and thank you for being here.

you are one of the 163 who voted to keep mike johnson on as speaker. tell me why you and 162 other democrats chose to save this guy who is not all that into democracy as we know to be in terms of election results. he is not in terms of women's reproductive rights and for stopping undocumented immigrants from voting even though they are not legally allowed to vote in this country . >> happy mother's day to the mothers in your life and the mothers in mind, especially my mother-in-law. i'm looking forward to this mother's day. hopefully i get two books. my son,'s patrick worked in the obama administration and he called jen psaki's favorite loss of all the bosses he has had.

thank you for asking me about the vote. let me tell you what it felt like on the floor of the house in my moccasins. it was the most ridiculous resolution or bill that marjorie taylor greene read on the floor. very poorly crafted. to me, it was not a vote to save the speaker but it was a vote out of respect for the institution. i have found her not to be a serious legislator with no respect for the rule of law or basic decorum. it was not a vote to save but a vote to table her ridiculousness. also one other thing i felt as result of that overwhelming vote to table.

i want to talk about mike johnson himself. it speaks to the control of this concept of reviving about things as opposed to facts. >> you should be concerned that illegal aliens might be voting in 2024. we all no intuitively that a lot of illegals are voting in federal elections but it is not easily proven and we don't have that number. >> i am surprised he said that. we all no intuitively that undelete illegal documents are voting and elections all the time. i don't have evidence or proof. we don't have evidence but clearly we all no it.

>> no evidence and no proof and cases later, this is a man who could say that joe biden one fairly and squarely. that legislation came up on the board in a most unserious way. to change the census. to unconstitutionally change the census because of what we are supposed to do which is to count persons and they were trying this once again. you have to count only citizens with no proof of that. that is what is dangerous about this majority and that is why i believe we will be successful this year and taking back the house. this majority would top leaders like mott johnson pedal misinformation and lies. to sow the seeds in our institutions and yet he decries that based on our institutions

we could not be at a lower ab. he is one among many others who were sowing the distrust in our institutions for their own political gain. >> we saw this from presidential candidate donald trump last week . u.s. and official understand that the get out of the vote operation is the most important part of the campaign. instead, he wants to have people lean out to the concept of cheating in voting. it's going to be about the cheating in voting. despite the fact there are audits in places like michigan. there are court cases in all of these things. there is groundwork being laid for the next be a lie. >> i am very worried about it.

i was worried when bill barr started it before the election in 2020. >> anti-semitism is on the rise and we have to check our political voices. we don't come up against the other because guess what, mr. trump embraces violence. we saw what he incited on january sixth. as you no, i was there and i am fearful for this election cycle as he loses. >> congresswoman, great to see you today. the democratic congresswoman from pennsylvania. >> ahead, ferocious name- calling and dominance is one of

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mr. hi, we still have more velshi coming up . in my new book, "small acts of courage" came out this week. join me in the coming days and i will be in san francisco may 14th and chicago on may 18th. i will keep you posted on social media. you can follow me on x, twitter, instagram and mastodon. i hope to see you, i will be right back. wanna know a secret? more than just my armpits stink. that's why i use secret whole body deodorant...

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and you've got oral-b. round cleans better by surrounding each tooth to remove 100% more plaque. for a superior clean. oral-b. brush like a pro. >> nobody can do it like me, nobody. i no more about offense and defense than they will ever understand, believe me. >> i am the least racist person you have ever met. >> nobody knows more about trade than me. >> nobody knows more about campaign finance than i do. >> i think i am much more humble than you would understand. >> donald trump charged in four criminal cases and spending days in court at the moment. we no he is liable for sexual of

views and an attempt to hold aid to ukraine in exchange for political favors and he tried to overturn the election he lost. he pushes xena phobic ideas and has a track record yet donald trump prevails. he is the presumptive nominee for president and we all no he could win the next election. this, despite violating every political norman social grace there is. what is it that gives donald trump staying power? on the other side, why is it that biden's messaging is not connecting better? the border is a key issue for republicans. it doesn't matter that biden work to pass a comprehensive border reform bill and republicans hampered the passage of the bills. republican rhetoric and trump's

rhetoric was consistent painting democrats as the enemy enabling the invasion and allowed trump to be painted as the savior for his followers. and the majority of americans believe in climate change as they see it having an impact in and it is a threat. nearly 2/3 of americans believe this united states should prioritize renewable energy according to a poll. biden has the strongest record on climate with any president in history. not a perfect record by any means but the strongest by far. he has done more for renewable energy and electric vehicles than any president so far. a defining part of biden's first term in his campaign for reelection. we talk about this on the show a lot. but for most young people who consistently rank climate don't-

know that he has made progress for the climate. trump is bullish as he backs oil and gas shamelessly proclaiming that he will drill, drill, drill. why are democrats losing the messaging? what is it about america republican messaging that is so effective? >> a professor of political science has a theory and argues the trump's effectiveness and his ability to maintain his following comes at least in part from something called dominance politics. republicans are all about dominance and they embrace the us versus then framing. taking risk. democrats recoil and back down after ruffling feathers. they have grown obsessively risk adverse and poll driven and allergic to hop button issues except, perhaps, for

abortion. they are more than a little boring. one , kamala harris was asked if she is scared of the second trump team. she had i am scared and we should all be scared and to voters, that smells like weakness. and the most frequently cited description of the democratic party was weak. in a recent gallup poll, 38% voted mr. biden compared with 57% for mr. trump,". democrats can use dominance politics too. the messaging does not need to translate to the crudeness, bullying and lies we have seen from donald trump. mobilizing dominance to promote freedom, equality, and progress. i am pack all of this on the

other side of the break where i am joined by the political analyst and whisperer tim o'brien. o'brien. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. [ "la donna" by vechi playing ] talk to a healthcare provider george, can you turn the music off? george? george! [ phone ringing ] george, can you get that? george! agh! george. hello george, can you mute the music? [ id.4 voice assistant ] alright. [ music stops ] thank you, george. for what?

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joining me now is stephen fish, professor from the university of california and a political analyst and the author of trump nation, the art

of being donald trump. i find this conversation fascinating because we are all trying to figure out ways to deal with the phenomenon that is donald trump and the republican party. your article could be seen as one in which you are encouraging democrats to endorse polarization and the kind of leadership and speech often associated with donald trump and people who are almost authoritarian figures. talk to me about why that is not what you mean. >> i'm calling for the opposite of that. we need to recognize the dominance politics wins but in the united states, we have plenty of examples of leaders who have used their dominance skills to liberal and democratic ends. going back to frederick douglass back to the

leaders in charge of the country in the middle of this century from fdr to lbj. they use dominance for democratic ends. when you think about a liberal politician versus one that is not liberal like trump. john f. kennedy and martin luther king never tried to make it about themselves. they never encouraged such a thing. politicians like donald trump or vladimir putin make it all about them. only they can do it. in a liberal high dominance politician written's rhetoric. only a justice seeking people guided by a higher power or justice or providence itself can make a difference. the differences between democrats and the other politicians pursued dominance.

>> there are literally a handful of people who no one follow donald trump is much as you have. these days, we are all donald trump experts but you are one before we became experts as well. so much ammunition and so much material on paper that it would take donald trump down and put them out of the fight and turn people against him. his base does not waver. around the edges it does but his base does not waver. people become dissatisfied with joe biden and people find him unimpressive. it is in a messaging issue? >> in many ways it is a messaging issue. i don't think democrats in recent decades have campaigned with the same kind of zeal and

streetfighting sensibility that republicans have. i remember seeing the untouchables with kevin costner and al capone in chicago. it is not by being polite and sticking to policy issues. i think the republicans in the trump era have schools republicans on that. i think some of this unravels when you cross over from campaigning into government. i think we could look at someone like john kennedy who was an effective and charismatic campaigner but not a very effective legislator.

and lyndon johnson accurately cites as a robust campaigner in legislator. he came on a massive landslide in 1964 and then was voted out because of a dominant but effective public policy position around the vietnam war . i think presidents have been navigating this divide between campaigning and governing that can be a slippery slope. often impacting governing, i think it is not about pure dominance. >> let's talk about how the viewers should parse that against objection. your op-ed

says democrats can appear weak and indecisive. maybe we need to clarify what these terms and words mean to you. do they need to be more aggressive especially on topics like abortion where they seem to be winning, or do you mean something different? >> dominance is broader than just aggression but aggression is part of a heart high dominance style. in fact, democrats are not aggressive enough by any means. rhetorically or by the way they pursue policies. in the public realm right now, the democrats who got a lot done were aggressive. when they were in office, too, to tim's point, they often pursued dominance politics. a big part of that is you don't just tell people what they want to hear based on a pole. you have an idea of what you think people need to no and you tell them what you think. in other words, you try to

convince voters. republicans do that all the time. even unpopular policies like abortion ban's and other things , the democrats have public opinion on our side. across the board of cultural and economic issues yet we act like our policies are less popular than they actually are. trump's immigration policies and ukraine policies are profoundly unpopular buddy creates the impression they are popular because he pursues them. the democrats, even when the public is on our side axis if the public is not. for politicians who want to convince people and lead and pursue what i call a high dominant strategy. >> there are people who say people should watch a trump rally or go to one to understand the connection he makes. most of my viewers have declined the invitation but some reporters do.

you have seen him in action and seeing the way he does what stephen just described. it doesn't matter to donald trump of truth is on his side, it does not seem to be part of his calculus when he tries to convince an audience of stuff. you watch people on tv in these rallies lapping it up. >> he has been doing it for decades. the pretenses on the side of working americans but as a businessman and politician, he has spent time fleecing americans. he is up in daily charismatic in his own peculiar way. in the same way that john kennedy, ronald reagan and barack obama were charismatic. some have that gift. there is uncertainty around the economy and around climate change and around cultural and social issues.

presidents can walk into that vacuum and seize the moment and develop a relationship with constituents. trump does that in spades and i don't think biden has that same charismatic connection to voters. unfortunately, this election could hinge on that. podcast and stay where you are. inside with jen psaki begins right now. at the moment that's been years in the making. former trump takes returned star witness michael cohen will take the stand tomorrow.